----- Original Message -----

From: Tom Kerekes

To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 8:13 PM

Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Mach3 Lathe threading? (again)

 

Hi Tapio,

Are those values from one failure?  Or one each from different failures?

Sorry I don't know what that could be either.

Could you provide the other requested information?

Is that 1-4 times per day out of how many passes?

Regards

TK

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 9110	From: Tapio Larikka	Date: 2/5/2014
Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again)

Attachments :  Hi Tom,   The CheckDoneBuf/ExecTime values per failure/freeze.   I upgraded to KMotion 431r/Mach3Version3.043.066 but no help Machine units are mm. Mach screen and truerpm are updating I attach the G-code file in two versions to this post. I usually run the ThreadG76.txt version since it's easier to alter if needed. The ThreadG32 is where I marked the part that causes freeze. The freeze is always at line that begins w/ G32 but not always at the first G32.     Rgds, Tapio     ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Kerekes To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Mach3 Lathe threading? (again)   Hi Tapio, Are those values from one failure?  Or one each from different failures? Sorry I don't know what that could be either. Could you provide the other requested information? Is that 1-4 times per day out of how many passes? Regards TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9128 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 2/6/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) Attachments : ShowThreadingValues-9128.c Hi Tapio, Thanks.  The next time it hangs please run the attached program to report KFLOPs internal state and send it to me. Regards TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9132 From: Tapio Larikka Date: 2/6/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) [1 Attachment]  Hi Tom,   Thanks, I run this. Should this be run from KMotion or should I paste this to the MachNotify.c?   Rgds, Tapio   ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Kerekes To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) [1 Attachment]   Hi Tapio, Thanks.  The next time it hangs please run the attached program to report KFLOPs internal state and send it to me. Regards TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9134 From: Tapio Larikka Date: 2/6/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) [1 Attachment]  Hi Tom,   I just realized: Could this issue be related to clock problem in my contoller PC running Mach? For some reason the clock visible on XP taskbar occasionally jumps back and forth, sometimes over an hour. Shuttle support just notified me that I should update the BIOS. I'll try that tomorrow   Rgds, Tapio   ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Kerekes To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) [1 Attachment]   Hi Tapio, Thanks.  The next time it hangs please run the attached program to report KFLOPs internal state and send it to me. Regards TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9135 From: ericncn Date: 2/6/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) [1 Attachment] I experience same issue and am NOT running Mach. Just KmotionCNC on a old Windows XP PC. The clock on the taskbar jumps forth and back. I believe it's late for dinner, I start shutting down everything, and then it's not late anymore... EC ---In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, <tapio.larikka@...> wrote:  Hi Tom,   I just realized: Could this issue be related to clock problem in my contoller PC running Mach? For some reason the clock visible on XP taskbar occasionally jumps back and forth, sometimes over an hour. Shuttle support just notified me that I should update the BIOS. I'll try that tomorrow   Rgds, Tapio   ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Kerekes To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) [1 Attachment]   Hi Tapio, Thanks.  The next time it hangs please run the attached program to report KFLOPs internal state and send it to me. Regards TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9142 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 2/6/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) Hi Tapio, I can't see how that would cause a problem.  But possibly in Mach3. Regards TK  Group: DynoMotion Message: 9160 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 2/7/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) Hi EC/Tapio, Hmmm that is very interesting.  Actually I'm aware of a 3rd customer that doesn't use KMotionCNC or Mach3 and has issues with the Windows Taskbar System Time changing.  He has a custom application and it sometimes cause his App to hang and then resumes by itself after and hour.  He ran for years the same software and application with no problems.  Then upgraded his PC and the problems began.  I suppose that would indicate it is either an issue in our KMotion Libraries or the FTDI USB Driver or just a problem with Windows itself. Please check the FTDI USB Driver Version you are using.  Control Panel | Device Manager | USB Controllers | KFLOP Motion Controller 4.XX | Properties | Driver my Version is 2.8.14.0  Upgrade driver from <KMotion Install Directory>\USB Drivers if not the latest version. EC, Are you saying if you only close KMotionCNC the time reverts to normal?? Thanks TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9163 From: ericncn Date: 2/7/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) No, I didn't mean that. I typically do a single KmotionCNC session that can last several hours. During that single session, from time to time I take a glance at the taskbar clock but readings are a bit random. Sometimes I read a time that is "earlier" than previous reading. Sometimes it's much "later" than I expected to be, and then it's "early" again. Regards EC ---In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, <tk@...> wrote: EC, Are you saying if you only close KMotionCNC the time reverts to normal?? Thanks TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9164 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 2/7/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) Hi EC, Thanks for that.  Other questions if you don't mind: Do you use the computer much when not running KMotionCNC? Have you ever noticed the time wrong when not running KMotionCNC? If the Time is wrong and you exit KMotionCNC does it correct?  Do you use Windows regional settings other than US English? Thanks TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9165 From: ericncn Date: 2/7/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) Ask all the questions you need! :-) That computer is an old computer that is now part of the milling machine and it's used ONLY for milling.  Each time I start it, as the first thing I do I kill all the unnecessary processes then I turn the controller power on and finally I launch KmotionCNC. Regarding all the other questions I need to check next time I use the milling machine, I'm far from it now. I wear no watch - that's why I check the clock on the taskbar - but I'll bring one with me so I can answer the other questions. Give me a couple days... Thank you EC ---In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, <tk@...> wrote: Hi EC, Thanks for that.  Other questions if you don't mind: Do you use the computer much when not running KMotionCNC? Have you ever noticed the time wrong when not running KMotionCNC? If the Time is wrong and you exit KMotionCNC does it correct?  Do you use Windows regional settings other than US English? Thanks TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9167 From: Tapio Larikka Date: 2/7/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again)  Hi Tom /EC,   EC, you say you use your machine only for milling ie no spindle sync moves (G32) ?   I have my machine set up with dual mode to be able to mill and turn. When in mill mode the worst thing I experienced due to the clock jumping (?) was guys complaining they got off sync with their coffee breaks.   In Lathe/turn mode there is problem only in G32/Spindle sync moves   Tom, Did you get the G-code files I attached to my reply earlier?  If yes then I suppose you noticed that there is two G76 consecutive commands, but the first translates to G1 and second to G32(spindle sync) move. The freeze problem is only on the second(G32) part, never on the first(G1) part of the code.   While googling about for this clock issue I came across a thread where someone wrote having clock jumping and had found solution by changing the Bios/Cmos battery. I also found that battery life is ~ (5years) - (time to enduser) - (enviromental stress), which in my case could be the elevated temp due to the enclosure, all adding to ~2 years which is equal to my PC age. True or not I'll replace the battery and report back on results.   I also found a thread where someone running ubuntu on same brand(ShuttleX50V2) had found that enabling daylight saving caused the clock to jump. I disabled daylight saving but it did not help on this problem.   I have my regional settings as US English, as is timezone and keyboard also. My WinXP is actually "MicroXP", a custom setup w/ bare minimum amout of processes running.   Rgds, Tapio       ----- Original Message ----- From: ericnc@... To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 1:24 AM Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Mach3 Lathe threading? (again)   Ask all the questions you need! :-) That computer is an old computer that is now part of the milling machine and it's used ONLY for milling.  Each time I start it, as the first thing I do I kill all the unnecessary processes then I turn the controller power on and finally I launch KmotionCNC. Regarding all the other questions I need to check next time I use the milling machine, I'm far from it now. I wear no watch - that's why I check the clock on the taskbar - but I'll bring one with me so I can answer the other questions. Give me a couple days... Thank you EC ---In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, <tk@...> wrote: Hi EC, Thanks for that.  Other questions if you don't mind: Do you use the computer much when not running KMotionCNC? Have you ever noticed the time wrong when not running KMotionCNC? If the Time is wrong and you exit KMotionCNC does it correct?  Do you use Windows regional settings other than US English? Thanks TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9168 From: ericncn Date: 2/8/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) > EC, you say you use your machine only for milling ie no spindle sync moves (G32)? > I have my machine set up with dual mode to be able to mill and turn. > When in mill mode the worst thing I experienced due to the clock jumping (?) was > guys complaining they got off sync with their coffee breaks. Yes, NO turning. It's a plain simple 3 axis milling machine. I don't even know what G32 is. I get no freezes no other problems except that sometimes I'm late for dinner because of the wrong clock time. Really a minor issue for me. I'd never reported it, but as you were mentioning it I thought I had to join the discussion and confirm... Regards EC   In Lathe/turn mode there is problem only in G32/Spindle sync moves   Tom, Did you get the G-code files I attached to my reply earlier?  If yes then I suppose you noticed that there is two G76 consecutive commands, but the first translates to G1 and second to G32(spindle sync) move. The freeze problem is only on the second(G32) part, never on the first(G1) part of the code.   While googling about for this clock issue I came across a thread where someone wrote having clock jumping and had found solution by changing the Bios/Cmos battery. I also found that battery life is ~ (5years) - (time to enduser) - (enviromental stress), which in my case could be the elevated temp due to the enclosure, all adding to ~2 years which is equal to my PC age. True or not I'll replace the battery and report back on results.   I also found a thread where someone running ubuntu on same brand(ShuttleX50V2) had found that enabling daylight saving caused the clock to jump. I disabled daylight saving but it did not help on this problem.   I have my regional settings as US English, as is timezone and keyboard also. My WinXP is actually "MicroXP", a custom setup w/ bare minimum amout of processes running.   Rgds, Tapio       ----- Original Message ----- From: ericnc@... To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 1:24 AM Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Mach3 Lathe threading? (again)   Ask all the questions you need! :-) That computer is an old computer that is now part of the milling machine and it's used ONLY for milling.  Each time I start it, as the first thing I do I kill all the unnecessary processes then I turn the controller power on and finally I launch KmotionCNC. Regarding all the other questions I need to check next time I use the milling machine, I'm far from it now. I wear no watch - that's why I check the clock on the taskbar - but I'll bring one with me so I can answer the other questions. Give me a couple days... Thank you EC ---In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, <tk@...> wrote: Hi EC, Thanks for that.  Other questions if you don't mind: Do you use the computer much when not running KMotionCNC? Have you ever noticed the time wrong when not running KMotionCNC? If the Time is wrong and you exit KMotionCNC does it correct?  Do you use Windows regional settings other than US English? Thanks TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9169 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 2/8/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) Hi Taio, Yes I did get the GCode.  Thanks.  From that it seems like an issue with G32. I suppose the system clock could be an issue.  We (or Mach3) might have an issue where we do something like "wait/sleep/timeout until a few milliseconds from "now", then suddenly the time changes back by an hour.  So now the time will be an hour in the future. Like you I Googled and there are a lot of hits on time changing due to Motherboard Clock problems.  Such as: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18995923/windows-8-8-1-system-clock-changing-randomly-while-powered-on-and-in-use Other hits mention synching to a time server.  You might turn that off. But it may also be a bug in our code.  On the next freeze please run that program to display the internal KFLOP state of the G32 Threading variables.  Just use KMotion.exe, load the program into any unused Thread, run it, and copy the report from the Console Screen. Thanks TK  Group: DynoMotion Message: 9170 From: ericncn Date: 2/9/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) OK, so I brought a watch with me, first thing I did sync together the watch and the computer, then I did two relatively short milling sessions to see what happened. At the end of the first session (less than an hour) the Windows clock was about 3 minutes forward than my watch. At the end of the second session (2 or 3 hours) it was about 10 minutes forward. Both cases, time remained wrong even after exiting KmotionCNC. Both cases, I tried to logout and login again to see if time was reset, but it was not possible to login again (there was some malfunctionment in the login screen). But, both cases, after rebooting the machine and once logged in, the windows clock was magically sync'ed again with my watch.... It looks me that the time error is somehow proportional to the length of the session but, when doing very long sessions (several hours), at a certain point it gets reset to correct time, then it continues accumulating error. Regards, EC ---In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, <tk@...> wrote: Hi EC, Thanks for that.  Other questions if you don't mind: Do you use the computer much when not running KMotionCNC? Have you ever noticed the time wrong when not running KMotionCNC? If the Time is wrong and you exit KMotionCNC does it correct?  Do you use Windows regional settings other than US English? Thanks TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9207 From: Tapio Larikka Date: 2/18/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) Attachments : ThreadingErr3-9207.txt ThreadingErr2-9207.txt ThreadingErr1-9207.txt  Hi Tom,   Attached please find 3 reports from the ShowThreadingValues.c. ThreadingErr1 was taken after I haltedkilled the thread2 running MachSpindle. The other two were taken in the "frozen" state.   Changing the bios battery and updating the bios had no curing effect. I also turned the Mach display Off after the ThreadingErr2, but had no effect.   Rgds, Tapio   ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Kerekes To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Mach3 Lathe threading? (again)   Hi Taio, Yes I did get the GCode.  Thanks.  From that it seems like an issue with G32. I suppose the system clock could be an issue.  We (or Mach3) might have an issue where we do something like "wait/sleep/timeout until a few milliseconds from "now", then suddenly the time changes back by an hour.  So now the time will be an hour in the future. Like you I Googled and there are a lot of hits on time changing due to Motherboard Clock problems.  Such as: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18995923/windows-8-8-1-system-clock-changing-randomly-while-powered-on-and-in-use Other hits mention synching to a time server.  You might turn that off. But it may also be a bug in our code.  On the next freeze please run that program to display the internal KFLOP state of the G32 Threading variables.  Just use KMotion.exe, load the program into any unused Thread, run it, and copy the report from the Console Screen. Thanks TK  Group: DynoMotion Message: 9209 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 2/18/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) [3 Attachments] Hi Tapio, Thanks.  Those reports helped find a potential flaw in the order that things are setup for Threading in KFLOP.  If an interrupt occurred in the middle of setting things up it could potentially result in a hang.  The "window" of time where an interrupt might cause a problem is probably around 500ns.  Since interrupts occur every 90us that would be on the order of 1 in 200 chance of a hang that you are seeing. Here is a link to new KFLOP Firmware.  It should be used with Test Version 4.31s.  Copy to the DSP_KFLOP directory then Flash New Version from KMotion.exe. http://dynomotion.com/Software/Patch/FixThreadingHang4.31s/DSPKFLOP.out Please let us know if it resolves the issue. Regards TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9211 From: Tapio Larikka Date: 2/18/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again)  Hi Tom,   I will try this tomorrow and will report back. I just downloaded the 431s and noticed that the .exe size is 2MB smaller than in 431r. Is this correct or did something get lost on the way?   Thank You in advance, Tapio ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Kerekes To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Mach3 Lathe threading? (again)   Hi Tapio, Thanks.  Those reports helped find a potential flaw in the order that things are setup for Threading in KFLOP.  If an interrupt occurred in the middle of setting things up it could potentially result in a hang.  The "window" of time where an interrupt might cause a problem is probably around 500ns.  Since interrupts occur every 90us that would be on the order of 1 in 200 chance of a hang that you are seeing. Here is a link to new KFLOP Firmware.  It should be used with Test Version 4.31s.  Copy to the DSP_KFLOP directory then Flash New Version from KMotion.exe. http://dynomotion.com/Software/Patch/FixThreadingHang4.31s/DSPKFLOP.out Please let us know if it resolves the issue. Regards TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9218 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 2/18/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) Hi Tapio, We found a few unused items and deleted them.  The size should be 47,839,616 bytes Regards TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9231 From: Tapio Larikka Date: 2/19/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again)  Hi Tom,   I hope I'm not too hasty with this but as a priliminary info: it looks like the patch did the trick. We cut threads the whole day without any freezes. Before it froze two to three times/ day.   I'll report on this again after a bit longer run   Rgds, Tapio   ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Kerekes To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Mach3 Lathe threading? (again)   Hi Tapio, We found a few unused items and deleted them.  The size should be 47,839,616 bytes Regards TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 9234 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 2/19/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) Hi Tapio, You probably jinxed it.  Thanks for the update and your patience.  Let us know if it comes back. Regards TK  Group: DynoMotion Message: 9246 From: Tapio Larikka Date: 2/22/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) Attachments : ThreadingErr4-9246.txt  Hi Tom,   We were close to end of third day of threading when we got a freeze again. Attached please find the info from the ShowThreadingvalues.c.   Between this freeze and the prior freeze I did a complete system reinstall with HDD format, mainly to reset the system and to revert Mach back to V3.042.22.   It appears that the continus velocity 3.043.66 has some issues. 3.042 runs much smoother. I did get two days of successful threading after the reinstall.   Difference with this freeze and the the priors was that my touch screen had trouble managing the mouse clicks in KMotion.   Rgds, Tapio     ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Kerekes To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] Mach3 Lathe threading? (again)   Hi Tapio, You probably jinxed it.  Thanks for the update and your patience.  Let us know if it comes back. Regards TK  Group: DynoMotion Message: 9247 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 2/22/2014 Subject: Re: Mach3 Lathe threading? (again) [1 Attachment] Attachments : ShowThreadingValues2-9247.c Hi Tapio, I can't find any other flaws in our technique.  Here is a new program to generate a report with a few more items. Not sure what you mean by: "had trouble managing the mouse clicks in KMotion" Regards TK